Being Canadian?

[ciroccoj]

So, I got this a few days ago and pondered it for a while. And now I'm sharing it.

BTW, the opinions in this letter are those of the writer (no idea who, unfortunately) and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of this lj.

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Subject: Being Canadian.... lets keep passing this around.

Oh, to be a Canadian again

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be Canada if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in Canada because it is the Country of Choice????

Think about it ... All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS?

I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas, now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday?

We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.

I'm tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. I'm not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Canada.

Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants.

However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand:

This idea of Canada being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Canadians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH & FRENCH, not Arabic, Chinese, Punjabi, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

We are, in the main, Christians, not Buddhists, Muslims or Sikhs because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider putting up with it since He was here before you arrived, because God is part of our culture.

If the Maple Leaf offends you, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change; we really don't care how you did things where you came from, you can continue doing it that way until you die as long as our laws are not broken. Please don't expect us to change to accomodate you. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. We need no arranged marriages, no burnt brides, no honor killings and certainly no changes in our school curriculum to " protect " your female students or allow for your failure in teaching our national languages to your children.

Our government gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Canadian freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

If you agree -- pass this along; if you don't agree -- delete it!

I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers, let's try.
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Thoughts? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller?

Comments

I'm not Canadian, but--

[jessebee.livejournal.com]

the language issue is one that comes up here as well. I'm with the writer on that one--Learn The Language(s). If you CHOOSE to emigrate to another country, it is YOUR responsibility to learn the language and to make sure that your offspring learn it as well. It's your job to adapt to the place you have chosen to live, not for it to adapt to you.

[sangerin.livejournal.com]

"Complicated" is such an appropriate song to go with this.

Because I get where the writer is coming from, I do... although I find a lot of it quite problematic.

But to take the example I know most about: the UCA sexuality debate.

We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.

Oh, yeah. Because the main argument the anti-LGBT's use is "Oh, but it would offend our multicultural brothers and sisters." Which, is kind of true, but how about the stuff that offends me? Why does that not count?

I should try to get off this soapbox. But it's one of the things that scares me. I'm getting more conservative in some ways, and most of those ways are expressed in this letter.

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

"Complicated" is such an appropriate song to go with this.
Yeah, no kidding.

I'm getting more conservative in some ways, and most of those ways are expressed in this letter.
I feel the strangest sense that I know exactly how you feel... I have a problem with a lot of what's here, and yet some of it... I dunno...

Well...

[animaltalker.livejournal.com]

when I was a kid I lived in Arizona and there was a large earthquake in Southern California, many Californians then moved to our small town and began complaining about the state of affairs in our small town and telling us how much better thing were in CA, my mother's favorite thing to say was, "Well, why not go back there and we'll all be happy, because we were doing fine here before you arrived."

Of course then there's my mother's other favorite saying "Columbus didn't get a gold engraved invitation from an of my ancestors"

[umbo.livejournal.com]

I've seen something extremely similar, except about the US. I think it might have even been on Snopes.

Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[my-cat-tim.livejournal.com]

Who the fuck died and made this writer God? "Canadian Culture" as this wacko calls it is really British culture, if the writer doesn't like immigrants from other countries coming over to Canada and bringing some of their culture with then why doesn't he/she go back to Britain? What gave the Brits the right to bring their culture to Canada and then become annoyed when immigrants from other countries do the same thing? Are the British somehow superior to other cultures? I don't think they are. This wonderful Anglo-Christian nation refused to allow in Jewish refugees during WW2 and returned them to Nazi Germany (another group of fine Christians) who slaughtered them.

The writer makes references to arranged marriages, burning brides and honour killings obviously trying to make everyone other than Anglo/Christians sound like barbarians. But we know who the real barbarians are. The real barbarians are people like the asshole who wrote this opinion piece. They are the ones who believe other cultures are inferior, the ones who would feel perfectly at home in Nazi Germany if only the Germans spoke English! It is time the writer of this offensive piece of garbage left Canada. He/she does not understand that we are a pluralistic society. It is too goddamn bad for her/him if old customs in Canada are dying out and news ones are taking over.

The writer claims his/her rights are being violated. How? Who told this writer he/she is no longer allowed to celebrate Christmas, go to church, pray, watch the Maple Leafs and so on? This writer is being disingenuous.

I completely disagree with the language point as well. I know people who simply have no need to use English or French. They live in communities that speak neither of these languages either in the home or at work. What do they need English and French for? Is there some universal decree that anyone who does not speak English or French is unhuman? How do other countries who do not speak either English or French get by?

I say this writer should go to hell.

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[my-cat-tim.livejournal.com]

There are a few spelling mistakes in the above diatribe (!) or comment. I aplogize for this, the spell preview put all kinds of wierd symbols in it and I could not read it properly.

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[animaltalker.livejournal.com]

Are you purposely missing the point?


Speak what ever language you want but don't then complain that you don't have equal access to things because the governement isn't able to provide every document in 140 different languages without bancrupting themselves.

People are always afraid their rights are being infringed upon, in Colorado we have the great smoking wars, because smokers think it's terrible that non-smokers don't want to breath their polluted air in public places and they say we have no freedoms I say yes you do, go home and smoke in your house.

Also you are the one being disingenious if you think Christians aren't being told they can't celebrate Christmas and they can't pray, there is a concerted war on against traditional Christianity that makes middle America very queasy, it may play well in California and on the east coast but it does play in the heartland.

with all the other things I could say the thing that always infuriates me is this:

I'm a Native American - no that's not because I was born here, that's because my grandparents' grandparents' grandparents' grandparents, as far back as can be thought, were born here. We didn't invite the Spanish, the British, the French, the Portuguese, or the Dutch, the all just came to be husbands to our mother earth. That's how Europeans think of the land - they rape it, they think you can own it, and they quarrel with each other and find new ways to kill each other, becasue they don't agree about the land, they don't agree about who is God or if there is a God and how this God is to be worshipped.

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[my-cat-tim.livejournal.com]

I think you are the one missing the point. Are you trying to tell me that storm troopers break into your house and take down your Christmas tree and smash all the gifts? If you pray in your church or in your home, or privately in your office are you telling me you will be arrested? Are you HONESTLY telling me that if you and a few other people held hands and prayed on a sidewalk you would be arrested? Give me peace! I have never seen a Jahoveh's Witness arrested. I am not saying you should not be able to pray on a sidewalk if you are so inclined, but this writer is going farther. Since when is Christianity the correct religion so that the rest of us should have to put up with it? Do I do my meditation exercises in the middle of your lectures? I am not against a group of students having an after school bible or prayer club or something like that, but why should I have to sit around in a classroom while you people pray? You are wrong, there is absolutley no "concerted war on against traditional Christianity", there is just a bunch of dumb ass Christians who think they can dictate to the rest of us and force us to be Christians. As John Staurt Mill suggested, why don't you people try teaching by example and then maybe the rest of us might WANT to be Christians. Instead this writer is attempting to use force to make us participate in Christian rituals.

I do not care much about enivornmental issues or the rape of the land. I think once we save the starving children we can worry about spotted owls and weird trees I don't know the name of. By the way do you own your own home? But what does any of this have to do with a writer who is tring to make EVERYONE an Anglo Christian? You are a fifth generation American and I am a second generation Canadian, so what? In the end we are all displaced people anyway.

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

there is a concerted war on against traditional Christianity that makes middle America very queasy

Is there really?

I'm not trying to be disingenuous, I swear. I'm genuinely curious. I don't necessarily see the signs myself, but I'm a non-traditional Christian. What specifically constitutes this "war"?

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[tudorlady.livejournal.com]

A 'concerted war on traditional Christianity'?

Oh, come on. Really? It's the majority religion. Maybe the rest of us just want to be heard. And maybe Christians are getting a taste of what it's been like to be a non-Christian. I've met a number of Christians who have a huge persecution complex that borders on actual psychosis.

The city of Portland has an admirable solution to the whole winter holiday season. There's a tree, a menorah, and things representing other faiths that celebrate a winter holiday of some sort in the town square. Everyone attends the tree lighting, the menorah lighting, etc., etc., etc. Big fuckin' whoop.

Breaking news: Most non-Christians don't give a flying rats ass about what Christians do or don't do so long as they don't try to impose their religion on the rest of us (i.e., deciding what's "moral" and enacting legislation on that basis). If they're interested in living in a theocracy, they can go to the Middle East (or Utah - snerk!) and see how well *that* works.

[For the record, if anyone is wondering, I am a deist.]

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[culturevulture7.livejournal.com]

I don't understand this "concerted war on traditional Christianity" stuff, honestly. If I'd been on the House floor when that representative had said that, I'd've fallen down laughing and had to have been hauled away.

Of course that's because I live in the MIDDLE Of the Bible Belt where there is more Christianity per square inch than Rome (since, y'know, they used to consider the Catholics bad--until they all ended up together on the same side of the anti-choice debate).

Honestly, I'm waiting for someone to show me this war, because I'm only seeing a concerted effort to make anyone who isn't an evangelical Christian right winger into some demon who drinks the blood of children. Oh, and I see the Nazis have made their appearance as well...

As for the language thing? You should hear my father who emigrated from France in the 50s go on about the language thing. He had to learn English to come here and so should anyone who comes here, frankly. And what hacks me off about many of these comments, esp the quotes from Muslims in the Netherlands after VanGogh was murdered "this country doesn't do enough to suit us." Hey, here's an idea, you have a country that does, why not return to it? If you don't like the place, leave.

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[jessebee.livejournal.com]

WORD. :-)

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

The city of Portland has an admirable solution to the whole winter holiday season. There's a tree, a menorah, and things representing other faiths that celebrate a winter holiday of some sort in the town square.
Yeah, my sixth-grade teacher had Jewish kids explain Hanukkah and a Hindu kid explain... some other festival that obviously didn't make much of an impression on me since I have no memory of it ;) But hey, she tried. I thought that was cool. And one high school I taught at would have a reading from a different religion/philosophy over the morning announcements every day, in the place of the Lord's Prayer. Often, but not always, the reading was from the Bible.

Breaking news: Most non-Christians don't give a flying rats ass about what Christians do or don't do so long as they don't try to impose their religion on the rest of us (i.e., deciding what's "moral" and enacting legislation on that basis).
Thank you!

I'm an atheist. I don't get offended when people wish me a Merry Christmas, or tell me I'm in their prayers, or whatever; actually, I think it's kind of touching. I do mind when they try to judge/control me or my actions based on whether or not I have accepted Christ as my saviour. I do mind when they tell me what I need to believe. Because that's not touching. It's scary.

Re: Is EVERYBODY out of their freaking minds?

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

The writer claims his/her rights are being violated. How? Who told this writer he/she is no longer allowed to celebrate Christmas, go to church, pray, watch the Maple Leafs and so on? This writer is being disingenuous.
Yeah, that's an area where I have a problem with the kind of sentiments expressed. Because I tell myself I can't possibly judge whether Christians are persecuted or not, because I'm not Christian so I probably wouldn't notice anti-Christian discrimination if I saw it.

But... I just can't help noticing that we do all take off during Christmas. Not Eid, not any of the Jewish High Holidays... Christmas. And Good Friday and Easter Monday. And stores close or reduce their hours Sunday, not Friday or Saturday. And all the supposed Christian-bashing aside, I hear Christmas songs ad nauseam in every mall from October to December, creches in all sorts of non-government public buildings, and get wished a Merry Christmas from December 1 onwards, by whites, blacks, and women in hijabs.

Sometimes this kind of thing is a little hard to swallow. I see the writer's point for some of what they say, but... I'm sorry, I just don't see our culture under attack. I just see it evolving.

[daf9.livejournal.com]

I'm curious. Was this in response to some specific incident that I haven't read about?

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I got it in an e-mail after discussing how Ottawa has become decidedly more Muslim since I was a kid. Arabic is now the third most common language here. The hijab is very common. And apparently many other big Canadian cities are colourizing as well - Toronto more black, Vancouver largely Asian, etc. The writer didn't seem to think much of these trends.

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

Why does that all sound so familiar...?

Oh, right. B/c it sounds like the bullshit being spouted by certain factions south of the border.

::sigh:: When will people get it through their thick heads that culture is and always has been mutable? If our cultures don't change and grow and learn from each other, they'll stagnate and fail.

I want to bang my head against a wall now.

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

I would like to clarify a couple of things in my response here. Or, rather, add something. :)

I believe that learning to speak the language of the nation in which you live is essential. I also believe that learning to speak English does not mean we native speakers in the States shouldn't learn basic Spanish, for example, or that Anglophone or Francophone Canadians shouldn't at least try to speak the nation's other language. But it also doesn't mean that immigrants should give up their languages.

No one has a constitutional right to not be offended. But we do all have constitutional rights to express ourselves and our religions, so stop whining already! God. :)

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

No one has a constitutional right to not be offended. But we do all have constitutional rights to express ourselves and our religions, so stop whining already! God. :)
I always feel weird stating that I honestly don't see Christianity under attack, because as a non-Christian I'm sure I miss a lot of stuff. But I think sometimes that some Christians don't see just how overwhelmingly Christian we still are. Just like many whites see only the fact that there are more dark faces out there, but don't notice the fact that whites are still in the majority, especially as you climb social or political or economic ladders.

[snarkhunter.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't see Christianity under attack, because as a non-Christian I'm sure I miss a lot of stuff

I seriously do NOT think that Christianity is under attack. And maybe I miss stuff b/c even though I am a Christian, I think the faith and its followers need a fair amount of work. But that's just me.

My "stop whining already" was actually directed at the majority groups who seem to be doing most of the whining. I don't know. I think that the government and society at large should be widely accepting of customs and traditions (within legal limits, obviously--I don't care if it's a part of someone's culture to eat babies or something, b/c that's just sick), and should do their best to ensure that those customs and traditions are included in the larger culture. Putting a menorah and a...oh, shoot. What's the Kwanzaa candle thing called? up in the town square with the Christmas tree isn't going to hurt anyone, and why not celebrate other religions whose followers live in your town?

Just like many whites see only the fact that there are more dark faces out there, but don't notice the fact that whites are still in the majority, especially as you climb social or political or economic ladders.

Yeeeah. I have read far, far too many diatribes by majority party types (white Christians, usually) complaining about how they're "discriminated" against in the workplace. I just...ugh.

The world doesn't make any sense. People are such a pain in the ass. And I include myself in that assessment. :)

[jenniferjames.livejournal.com]

Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

I agree with this statement, probably more so than many because of my geographical location (Texas). I certainly don't begrudge anyone the chance to make a better life for themselves or their family, but I can honestly say it irks me more than a little when I or my friends and family are at a disadvantage for employment opportunities because we cannot speak the language of someone who has immigrated to our country and can't be bothered to learn the language of the land.

When I was in college and living in the dorm I made friends with a girl whose parents came from Mexico as newly weds. When I met Alma I think her parents had been here for about twenty-two years. Alma told me her mother spoke little to no English. I asked how in the world she functioned and Alma said her father knew English and whenever he was not with her mother, either she or her brother or another English speaking relative was with her. She said her mother had no interest in learning the language of the country she had chosen to call her home.

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

I agree with this statement, probably more so than many because of my geographical location (Texas).
Yeah, I think the person writing this may have been in one of the larger Canadian cities (Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver), where there are sizable language minorities and where you can be at a disadvantage if you don't know French (or Punjabi or Arabic or Chinese).

Having lived in Ontarian Aryan territory for 12 years, though, I would have to say that's not the bulk of the real Canadian experience. And I always found it interesting that when I lived in Kingston and London I heard a lot more complaints about these 'damn immigrants and frogs' who force us to learn their stupid languages than I ever did in Ottawa. Which was really ironic, given that almost nobody in London or Ottawa seemed to speak anything other than English.

[ladystarstruck.livejournal.com]

Being Canadian is about being bland and neutral and adaptive, really. There's room in our country for pretty much everything (with the caveat that it's legal, and we're regularly redoing our laws to suit) and that's the beauty of it. We aren't trapped by tradition into doing things the way our founders did them. I don't think of us as a Christian country at all; just a country that happens to have more Christians than other religions at the moment.

Should, say, Chinese become so popular a language that more people speak it than French, why not add it as an official language?

It's very hard for some adults to learn a new language; I don't expect immigrants to learn, though they should not be upset that it's hard for them to get along without an official language. They should make sure their children do learn one though.

[tudorlady.livejournal.com]

It's very hard for some adults to learn a new language; I don't expect immigrants to learn, though they should not be upset that it's hard for them to get along without an official language. They should make sure their children do learn one though.

Funny - if I moved to Norway, I would expect to learn to speak Norweigan. I wouldn't expect any special accomodations made for me, and I doubt seriously that any would be offered. I wouldn't expect to be able to find work until I had a basic command of the language, to the point where I'd be able to do the work and interact reasonably well with native speakers of Norweigan.

I'm going through some real heartache now with a friend who is trying to immigrate to the US (from Canada), and it's made me *so* aware of the number of immigrants we have here - legal, and, especially, illegal. I wonder what would happen to me if *I* snuck into some other country and then tried to get a driver's license, a job, and applied for public assistance... because people who've come in under the fence do just that. I'd get my ass kicked back home, that's what. Here that doesn't seem to happen unless they're actually *caught in the act* of sneaking under the fence.

I don't begrudge *anyone* the opportunity to come here and make a better life for themselves. But they need to do it legally, and make an effort to accomodate *our* ways and language.

Which is just what I'd have to do in Norway.

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

Funny - if I moved to Norway, I would expect to learn to speak Norweigan.
Actually, one of the things that really bugs me about the kind of sentiments in the letter is that they so often accompany utter hypocrisy.

I can totally respect people like you who say "I would learn the language of country X if I went there, so why shouldn't I expect X'ers to learn my language if they come here?" However, I often hear this kind of thing from people who expect everybody to speak English everywhere. And act like good decent Canadians (Americans, Brits, etc) everywhere. People who think nothing of going to work in China without knowing a word of Chinese, and then roundly criticize China for not showing American CNN or not having a large enough Shakespeare section in their bookstores... and that's where my respect starts to wane a bit.

Case in point: my kids' babysitter (not the sharpest pencil in the box) has as her pettest peeve the fact that her husband, presumably a smart, hard-working man, is unable to rise as high as he should in the gov because he doesn't speak French.

This is sad, and lamentable, and possibly unjust. But... the guy lives in OTTAWA. He works for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Has worked there for about thirty years. AFAIK, there have been bilingualism requirements for FedGov employment for over thirty years, because I remember they had them when I was growing up. The Feds even pay full wages for employees to spend a few months doing nothing but learning the other official language.

So when she then turns around and says all these Somali refugees need to buckle down and learn English on their own dime... b'zuh?

I don't begrudge *anyone* the opportunity to come here and make a better life for themselves. But they need to do it legally, and make an effort to accomodate *our* ways and language.
I fully agree - except in the case of refugees. Who, IMHO, should be given a bit of a break because they're not really here by choice. I do still expect them to make an effort to adapt to the ways and language of the country that's generous enough to give them refuge, but I don't have quite the same level of "and if you don't like it you can just go back home" feeling towards them as I do with other immigrants.

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

Should, say, Chinese become so popular a language that more people speak it than French, why not add it as an official language?
Yeah, that's the other thing that really bugged me about the letter. It's like "Canada Is Christian and English-French Bilingual" is our motto.

Since when? And for how long? And why? If the majority of the population is Muslim by the time my kids are adults... would it make sense to still not make concessions for Ramadan, or worship on Fridays? And if so, why?

[bandgeek.livejournal.com]

Hrmph. Well, I get a healthy dose of this sort of talk every Thanksgiving, along with my uncle's diatribes against the A-rabs, and basically anyone else who isn't just like him.

Looks like people are debating this pretty well for me, and I don't feel like giving myself heartburn right now. But I will say that even as a Christian, religion in schools offends me. It isn't necessarily about trying to represent every view -- it's about choosing not to represent any view.

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

Well, I get a healthy dose of this sort of talk every Thanksgiving, along with my uncle's diatribes against the A-rabs,
Yeah, this sounds familiar to me too.

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

BTW, your Stewart icon makes me LOL every. single. time ;)

[bandgeek.livejournal.com]

Hee! I love wickedprincess3 for a reason ... *g*