"What if you're allergic to spiders and you want to work as a janitor?"

[ciroccoj]

Should Muslim cab drivers in Minneapolis be allowed to refuse to take passengers who are carrying alcohol, because alcohol is contrary to their religion?

Should a Muslim cab driver in BC be allowed to refuse to take a blind passenger with a seeing eye dog, because dogs are dirty, according to Muslim belief?

• "Was the dog actually dirty? Like, did the blind guy just happen to have a really slobbery dog?"
  
  
• "Where in the Koran does it say that dogs are dirty? My dad wouldn't get me a dog when I was a kid, but I don't think it was religious. Were you told they were dirty?"
  "I don't remember hearing anything like that in the Koran either. I think it's cultural."
  "Yeah, my parents weren't big on animals in the home either, but that was just cultural. We were atheists."
  
  
• "What if the cab driver's allergic to dogs?"
  "What if you're allergic to spiders and you want to work as a janitor?"
  
  
• "It's a private business, they can do what they want."
  "Yeah? What if somebody says No hijabs allowed in my cab?"
  "What if somebody else says I don't take women passengers who aren't wearing the hijab?"
  
  
• "Well what if your restaurant says No peddlars?"
  "Are you asking if that's discriminating against peddlars?"
  
  
• "My home town had 5000 people, we only had two cabs. And the cabbies went to bed at midnight. So people would walk home after closing and be charged with being drunk in public. But you couldn't force them to keep working till 2, when the bars closed."
  "Yeah but that's different, you can't choose not to be blind when you're trying to get a cab."
  
  
• "What about Christians who refuse to perform same-sex marriages?"
  "Are you talking Christian clerics or Justices of the Peace?"
  "Does it matter?"
  
  
• "What if it wasn't a seeing eye dog in the taxi? What if it was one of those little yap dogs that people carry around in chintz bags?"
  
  
• "What about Christian cab drivers who refuse to take gay couples?"
  
  
• "What about Christian doctors who refuse to perform abortions?"
  "What about Christian doctors or pharmacists who refuse to hand out birth control?"
  "Or who hand out placebo pills instead?"
  "Yeah, right!"
  "No, not kidding, I read about it a few years ago, they were actually handing out placebos."
  "You're kidding. God, and they say us Muslims are crazy?"
  
  
• "Oh, no no, we discussed that question and we all decided that blacks should definitely be allowed in restaurants."
  "Oh you have no idea how relieved I am to hear that!"

Yes, I just came from Civil Liberties, can you tell?

It's such a neat class. So many bizarre little discussions, and such a completely Ottawa set of people in it. Our small group today was composed of: a white girl, probably WASP Ontarian but I won't assume because hey, I look & sound WASP Ontarian too; me, (white atheist Chilean immigrant); a dark Muslim guy from a small town in Alberta; a white evangelical Christian guy from a small town in Ontario; and a dark Muslim guy from Toronto (AKA Mr. I Hate Ottawa). And it was neat, but not surprising, how our backgrounds informed but didn't dictate where we landed on the issues. Or even what we thought the issues were.

We never even managed to get the discussion started, really. Because after some pondering on the hygiene of the seeing eye dog in question and the frequency of cabs in large/small towns, we ended up split down the middle as to where to go next. On one side was the guy from Toronto and the white guy from Ontario, saying that the issue was private/public companies and the discussion of religion v. culture could be saved for another day because it wasn't important. On the other side were the guy from Alberta and myself, saying that religion v. culture and cultural variations were the issue. In the middle was the other white girl, who watched us volley back and forth.

And we all knew that even if we could get past the "What is the Issue" question, we'd get bogged down on what the cab company should do on a totally different set of values, with both Muslims having no problem with dogs in cabs and being somewhat shocked that somebody would deny mobility rights to a blind person, me & the Christian guy having a mild dislike of dogs, the other white girl being neutral on the whole dog-aesthetics question, and none of us in agreement over what the cab drivers should & shouldn't be allowed to do.

The large class discussion was interesting too, especially since the class includes our teacher, who immigrated with her parents from Trinidad (she's the one who was so relieved that our group decided blacks should be allowed in restaurants), a white girl with severe cerebral palsy, a young Muslim guy from Somalia and an older Muslim guy from (I think) Pakistan, a Jewish guy from Ottawa, etc etc - and again, total splits on where they came from and where they ended up on the issues, mostly having little to do with where most people would imagine they might end up.


Anyway. It was lots of fun :) :) :)

Comments

[leaper182.livejournal.com]

*reads*

"What if it wasn't a seeing eye dog in the taxi? What if it was one of those little yap dogs that people carry around in chintz bags?"

*laughs loud enough to earn curious looks from co-workers*

*covers mouth, continues convulsing in chair*

Cirocco, I love you to pieces.

[ciroccoj.livejournal.com]

"What if it wasn't a seeing eye dog in the taxi? What if it was one of those little yap dogs that people carry around in chintz bags?"

*laughs loud enough to earn curious looks from co-workers*

Hee - yeah, we were all glad our classroom isn't near anyone else today. We were having just way too much fun :D :D

[leaper182.livejournal.com]

*snerk*

[tudorlady.livejournal.com]

Okay, I admire you. You must have incredible patience.

I would have been out of there in about five minutes. I totally lose it in hypothetical arguments like this. This is why I also can't stand philosophy majors, I think - I hear stuff like this and want to start yelling "What is it with you people??? Why do you have to even speculate about this? You're doing it on purpose, aren't you? Just use some goddam common sense, okay? Now, can we get on with things?"

If I'm lucky, just yelling about it will take care of it. Otherwise, I'll be on the roof with a rifle.

Am I against questioning? Dissent? Different ideas? HELL NO. But I find myself getting really impatient while people work this stuff out for themselves, out loud and/or (in some cases) try to show people how enlightened they are. I don't know why. It may well have been a very hurried childhood on my part - I had far bigger and more immediate things to worry about and got all of this out of my system by the time I was 15. That could be why I get almost homicidal when people have long, pedantic/hypothetical/I'm-educating-you-you-narrowminded-peasant discussions when the answer to the question is simple.

That answer is: Just be nice to each other.

Yeah, I know, I know. It doesn't work like that for 95% of the people on this sad, overcrowded rock. But it wouldn't it be great if it did?

But - you get a medal for this. Seriously.